Onderwerp: Retention of a down payment for a defective yacht

Hello,
Being recently retired in Britanny, France, my project was to sail to northern Europ and possibly to Iceland. The best Country to buy a robust second hand steel boat was the Netherlands.
I selected a Van de Stadt 34’ with a steel hull. I asked the surveyor to perform his survey before signing a purchase agreement. He could not before 10 days. I booked for the possible day of survey but decided to sign the agreement with a 10 % down payment (4500 €) payed immediately (the paymentflow agreement states that this amount still is my property). The completion of the sale was subject to the outcome of the survey 10 days later.
The survey revealed hidden defects and mishaps which should have been disclosed before signing the purchase agreement which establishes that the buyer has the right to cancel the purchase contract if the amount of the necessary repairs, further to the survey report exceeds 0 euro).
I informed the broker by mail and by registered letter that due to the outcome of the survey, I decided to cancel the intended purchase.
The broker denied to cancel the sale process for the reason the surveyor had rated the boat as « adequate to more than adequate » and does not answer to my mails anymore (the boat is rated « sold » i.e. « verkocht » on the website).
The expected cost of proceedings (attorney, expert,…) in a dutch court would be certainly be higher than the expected refund. So I am not keen to go for a lawsuit but I am extremely frustrated and will go on talking about this case in the french sailing community.
This is happening in a western country, jeopardizing my former confidence. You can agree on whatever protecting clauses, if the guy is simply not answering, what can you do ?
Is there in the Netherlands an organization dealing with small cases acting in Justice on behalf of the plaintiff or should I refer to the European Union? Please ZeilersForum members, could you advise an other solution than the court to get my money back ?
Thanking you

This one www.devalk.nl/nl/jachtmakelaar...VAN-DE-STADT-34.html ??

If this is the yacht. The broker is a member of several (quality) associations.
Perhaps you could address one of these.

<quote>
Lidmaatschap
De Valk is aangesloten bij:
HISWA - de Nederlandse branche vereniging; Link
HISWA qualified Yacht & Ship Broker; Link
EMCI - onze makelaars zijn HISWA/EMCI gecertificeerd; Link
ABYA - de Engelse makelaars bond, de‚ Association of Brokers and Yacht Agents; Link.
NBMS - Nederlandse bond van makelaars in schepen.
</quote>

De Valk is a member of the Hiswa Yachting Business organisation. Hiswa has an independent "Geschillencommisie" for complains about a member:

De Geschillencommissie
Postadres:
Postbus 90600
2509 LP Den Haag

www.degeschillencommissie.nl/m...-vragenformulier.pdf

ik ken de boot en alleen al het kop stuk doet me erg hard lachen

de boot is niet stuk maar heeft gebruikers sporen (niet gek na 22 jaar)


en als bewijs voor de mensen die reageren heb je het keuringsrapport?
en hoe ziet dat er dan uit?
wand ik denk dat die anders is dat dat je nu voor legt

Let’s wait for the topic starter. We don’t know if it is the same boat. Topic starter didn’t specify yacht nor broker. Baasklusje is asking iff it is the same and ts didn’t response yet.

We weten toch (nog) niet of het daadwerkelijk deze boot betreft

"The survey revealed hidden defects and mishaps which should have been disclosed before signing the purchase agreement which establishes that the buyer has the right to cancel the purchase contract if the amount of the necessary repairs, further to the survey report exceeds 0 euro)."

I dont know the salesagreement they use or if the surveyor has found structual defects.
But the yacht should possess seaworthiness what can be expected for this type and age (normal wear and tear calculated)
In your case they put in €0,- as unbinding factor so they should return your downpayement.
What did the surveyor found because he says the yacht is more then adequate?

100% zelfde boot alleen dit is de oude naam van ongeveer 12 jaar geleden

hertochjan schreef :
Geef dan gewoon zijn geld terug. Of ga in ieder geval het gesprek aan.

Wat jij onder gebruikssporen ziet, ziet een ander dat misschien anders.
Wil je daar echt over gaan moeilijk doen?

Is Hertochjan de eigenaar of de makelaar?

Was altijd een mooie vd stadt 34.
Ik heb em afgetimmerd zin wordn door de eigenaar bij jachtwerf tijssen in de jaren 90.

WhiteMagic schreef :
Gezien zijn manier van antwoorden is hij er wel bij betrokken. Gezien zijn taalfouten zal hij niet de makelaar zijn. Mogelijk de eigenaar?
hertochjan schreef :
Ik vind zijn reactie sowieso eigenaardig. Daarnaast is zijn reactie in dit draadje zijn eerste post op het forum.

ik heb in de zelfde thuishaven gelegen en ben bekend met de eigenaar

plusfast schreef :
De OP stelde deze vraag op en buitenlands forum, ik heb hem geadviseerd om hier te posten omdat het specifiek over een NL issue gaat.
IMO vraag hij alleen advies om hoe om te gaan met een conflict situatie met een Nederlandse makelaar en hoe hij zijn recht kan halen.

100% mee eens met Sonador. Ongeacht wie er in z'n recht staat. Word je echt een blijer mens als je de voormalige koper z'n geld niet teruggeeft? Gewoon een andere koper vinden die wel blij is met je boot (dat wil je zelf toch ook?).

Paotr, can you let us know which broker it concerns? First of all, it would be important for the Dutch sailing community to know which broker is unreliable, if not for breaching contract then for stopping to communicate to the buying party involved.

A down payment confirms a sale, but that sale includes conditions that need to be met for it to continue, and based on what you wrote not all conditions seem to have been met (the amount of the necessary repairs, further to the survey report exceeds 0 euro). The seller is also required to inform the buyer about any hidden defects ("verborgen gebreken"): if the seller was knowledgeable about these and deliberately witheld those he is liable in court.

I advise you to start legal proceedings if the broker refuses to reply and have the down payment returned. Proceedings in Dutch court would certainly be higher than the refund, but in these cases the court will not only oblige the down payment to be returned to you but will also have the seller/broker cover all proceeding costs. (you can check this with an attorney).

If you get in touch with me by personal forum message, I will be happy to help you to get in touch with an attorney specialised in "contractenrecht".

hertochjan schreef :
Zijn de foto's bij de advertentie al zo oud? Dan kan de boot er nu inmiddels heel anders uitzien....
Ik ben erg bemieuwd naar de bevindingen van de surveyor. Wat is er mis met de boot?